I agree with you, moderation often acts in its own self-interest, and those of us outside its circle are subject to many rules that force us to stop playing the game.
Brookie I'm sorry that this situation made you feel like this but moderation is not to blame for enforcing a rule that I had set. I had given the moderators instructions that bundling designs was not allowed with the exception of shoes/accessories because those could arguably be considered as part of the clothing piece. The moderators correctly moderated the situation as per those rules.
Part of the reason why design rules are so vague is because the rules were created via a community discussion months ago, back when there were more pressing issues and designs/shops were not a primary concern. Once I read your blog, I did raise a discussion that is still actively being had and you are more than welcome to join it. I am sorry that I made you feel like your suggestions were gone unacknowledged.
Is designing really that serious? Shop owner's should be able to post whatever they want as long as its not offensive... like literally who cares wfjldksmjfdnsklhnoeklasd there are way more serious things that could be focused on
It's imperative we have full face masks to allow expressions which cannot be achieved unless you can view the entire look with eyes & lips. How do users purchase different items without the option to be able to see how it will all come together? We need this update to the design segment of the site.
To be clear, this was a discussion even before you had even uploaded your designs. It was first brought up when there was a clown mask made by doom, and an anon mask made by gagaluv. The reason i made my blog was because we realized that people could bypass the current rule by making masks.
I understand your frustration, and your designs aswell as some other face designs has been a topic for me that i've brought up to both Sin, and the Kouncil. I did tell you that i would have a talk to Sin and why this became a rule to begin with, the mods are not here to limit your creativity. There were just rules already set in place that i have to enforce. I'm STILL talking about ways where i can find a middle ground where everyone can be happy. I hope you can understand and have some patience. <3
MOD_Raven This and all future rules should be cleared by Sin BEFORE being enforced, honestly. My second paragraph stands 100%. WHO decided this, who reenforced it, and do they have a conflict of interest for doing so?
Its unfortunate now us, the users, have to wait and "be patient" while mods and admin find a middle ground to a half-ass rule that was not even approved by the lead admin before attempting to be "enforced". Going forward I truly hope something was learned from this experience and a more formal process for approving and announcing new rules can be put in place.
brookie Except this WAS a rule. It Clearly states
๐ญ. ๐๐๐น๐น ๐ฎ๐๐ฎ๐๐ฎ๐ฟ๐ ๐ฎ๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐ป๐ผ๐ ๐ฝ๐ฒ๐ฟ๐บ๐ถ๐๐๐ฒ๐ฑ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ฝ๐น๐ผ๐ฎ๐ฑ.
Do NOT upload any designs that feature more than one category of design (with the exception being clothes/shoes and clothes/accessory
I understand if you don't agree with how this should be or how clothes are no different than face designs, its one of the things i'm openly trying to discuss between the mods and Sin. The only reason why the mask clarification was needed was because anyone could claim an entire face of eyes lips and makeup is one design as a mask. So yes, we needed to address people bypassing the current rules by playing dumb about what they actually created.
Again im discussing it because i do think there is room for you to be creative without ruining the integrity that full avis were doing, and theres alot of moderating happening besides this so i cant do it all less than 24 hours.
MOD_Raven While that rule may have "existed", it clearly states "Full avatars are not permitted for upload", and then goes on basically say "well, not just full avatars but also not more than 1 category except for these few exceptions but also we know these are uploaded on a daily basis and really haven't enforced this rule much at all anyways and we probably need more clarification from Sin on what this actually means and how we should handle it".
I guess the "mask" rule can still be very ambiguous too, who gets to decide if makeup is a mask or not? Would a drag queen consider their full face of makeup a mask? Is the Orange Head that was recently uploaded a Mask, even though it also has eyes and a face on it? Does a "mask" have to have transparent eye sockets? My "masks" do reference someone, as I posted the Imgur album. Too much ambiguity. Makeup designs are already limited, because there is no current category they could be uploaded to that would layer correctly. This is why the Kiss makeup covers hair and other features that it shouldn't, layering.
Maybe a better way to phrase a rule that limits full avatars, without limiting users creativity, could be something like:
Full-body avatars are not permitted for upload
Designs that FULLY cover/replace the base of an avatar and/or background while also adding new components (hair, clothes, eyes, mouth, etc.) is not allowed. Designs that are meant to be layered on top of and still rely entirely on the base avatar, are allowed. A single design should not replace the avatar, alter the pose, body, or structure, or function independently.
This rule would still allow for the multicombination of clothes+shoes+500 accessories on 1, but also other designs. If a design still needs a "skin" and other layers to function, its allowed. If the design can be worn with all other components, including the skin, removed, it is not allowed.
or simply as I stated in my blog, remove ALL cross category designs for consistency... or limit it to 2 categories per design. Back to the topic of WHO is getting to decide these rules? People who make designs? People who have a shop? People with a conflict of interest? EITHER WAY, the discussion we are having right now about this would have been much more valuable days or weeks ago BEFORE the "clarification on masks" blog.
I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings, but this rule was set ages ago. Itโs only blowing up on the site now, despite the fact that many people already took advantage of selling full avatars and merged items (something I disagree with).
Bundling facial features is frustrating purely because it restricts customization. Otherwise, it's not that deepโif a user chooses to limit themselves to a pre-set face, that's on them.
As for clothing and shoes, I donโt mind it, though I regret merging some of my own designs since it kills variety. They should be separate items given that there is a specific category for shoes.
Regarding the accessories: The problem is the 3-item limit. Forcing people to pay real money for more slots is just messed up.
Seong Just as if a user chooses to limit themselves to buy an dress that has shoes, a handbag, and bracelets all combined. This is my point about consistency.
Seong Re: "The problem is the 3-item limit. Forcing people to pay real money for more slots is just messed up."
- The previous site had a 1 item limit.
- Account upgrades can be purchased via Koinz, which I had implemented because users requested there be more things they can spend Koinz on. People are not forced to pay real money for more slots - that is false.
you spilled. This honestly seemed targeted at you. Kiss was doing makeup a few weeks ago and there wasn't an issue then, you make a couple and suddenly it's a huge issue.
It's not a full avatar, people will still have to buy hair, clothes, accessories, etc.
And you're right, why is this different than an outfit that comes with shoes? Half my outfits have shoes included, but I still buy cute boots when I see them.
Kiss Just like i mentioned on your blog your kiss logo could be considered an added accessory or background. So i guess yes, yours break the rules too :)
Comments
I agree with you, moderation often acts in its own self-interest, and those of us outside its circle are subject to many rules that force us to stop playing the game.
Brookie I'm sorry that this situation made you feel like this but moderation is not to blame for enforcing a rule that I had set. I had given the moderators instructions that bundling designs was not allowed with the exception of shoes/accessories because those could arguably be considered as part of the clothing piece. The moderators correctly moderated the situation as per those rules. Part of the reason why design rules are so vague is because the rules were created via a community discussion months ago, back when there were more pressing issues and designs/shops were not a primary concern. Once I read your blog, I did raise a discussion that is still actively being had and you are more than welcome to join it. I am sorry that I made you feel like your suggestions were gone unacknowledged.
Nicely said
++
Is designing really that serious? Shop owner's should be able to post whatever they want as long as its not offensive... like literally who cares wfjldksmjfdnsklhnoeklasd there are way more serious things that could be focused on
Team Cookie
While I donโt have a strong opinion on designs I donโt like how rules get made & it doesnโt feel like feedback is rly taken into account
Hugs
It's imperative we have full face masks to allow expressions which cannot be achieved unless you can view the entire look with eyes & lips. How do users purchase different items without the option to be able to see how it will all come together? We need this update to the design segment of the site.
Team you! The rules are stupid!
i dont know how shop games work or any rules for shops but i am tired of seeing the same stuff in shops all the time so team you!
To be clear, this was a discussion even before you had even uploaded your designs. It was first brought up when there was a clown mask made by doom, and an anon mask made by gagaluv. The reason i made my blog was because we realized that people could bypass the current rule by making masks. I understand your frustration, and your designs aswell as some other face designs has been a topic for me that i've brought up to both Sin, and the Kouncil. I did tell you that i would have a talk to Sin and why this became a rule to begin with, the mods are not here to limit your creativity. There were just rules already set in place that i have to enforce. I'm STILL talking about ways where i can find a middle ground where everyone can be happy. I hope you can understand and have some patience. <3
MOD_Raven This and all future rules should be cleared by Sin BEFORE being enforced, honestly. My second paragraph stands 100%. WHO decided this, who reenforced it, and do they have a conflict of interest for doing so? Its unfortunate now us, the users, have to wait and "be patient" while mods and admin find a middle ground to a half-ass rule that was not even approved by the lead admin before attempting to be "enforced". Going forward I truly hope something was learned from this experience and a more formal process for approving and announcing new rules can be put in place.
brookie Except this WAS a rule. It Clearly states ๐ญ. ๐๐๐น๐น ๐ฎ๐๐ฎ๐๐ฎ๐ฟ๐ ๐ฎ๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐ป๐ผ๐ ๐ฝ๐ฒ๐ฟ๐บ๐ถ๐๐๐ฒ๐ฑ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ฝ๐น๐ผ๐ฎ๐ฑ. Do NOT upload any designs that feature more than one category of design (with the exception being clothes/shoes and clothes/accessory I understand if you don't agree with how this should be or how clothes are no different than face designs, its one of the things i'm openly trying to discuss between the mods and Sin. The only reason why the mask clarification was needed was because anyone could claim an entire face of eyes lips and makeup is one design as a mask. So yes, we needed to address people bypassing the current rules by playing dumb about what they actually created. Again im discussing it because i do think there is room for you to be creative without ruining the integrity that full avis were doing, and theres alot of moderating happening besides this so i cant do it all less than 24 hours.
MOD_Raven While that rule may have "existed", it clearly states "Full avatars are not permitted for upload", and then goes on basically say "well, not just full avatars but also not more than 1 category except for these few exceptions but also we know these are uploaded on a daily basis and really haven't enforced this rule much at all anyways and we probably need more clarification from Sin on what this actually means and how we should handle it". I guess the "mask" rule can still be very ambiguous too, who gets to decide if makeup is a mask or not? Would a drag queen consider their full face of makeup a mask? Is the Orange Head that was recently uploaded a Mask, even though it also has eyes and a face on it? Does a "mask" have to have transparent eye sockets? My "masks" do reference someone, as I posted the Imgur album. Too much ambiguity. Makeup designs are already limited, because there is no current category they could be uploaded to that would layer correctly. This is why the Kiss makeup covers hair and other features that it shouldn't, layering. Maybe a better way to phrase a rule that limits full avatars, without limiting users creativity, could be something like: Full-body avatars are not permitted for upload Designs that FULLY cover/replace the base of an avatar and/or background while also adding new components (hair, clothes, eyes, mouth, etc.) is not allowed. Designs that are meant to be layered on top of and still rely entirely on the base avatar, are allowed. A single design should not replace the avatar, alter the pose, body, or structure, or function independently. This rule would still allow for the multicombination of clothes+shoes+500 accessories on 1, but also other designs. If a design still needs a "skin" and other layers to function, its allowed. If the design can be worn with all other components, including the skin, removed, it is not allowed. or simply as I stated in my blog, remove ALL cross category designs for consistency... or limit it to 2 categories per design. Back to the topic of WHO is getting to decide these rules? People who make designs? People who have a shop? People with a conflict of interest? EITHER WAY, the discussion we are having right now about this would have been much more valuable days or weeks ago BEFORE the "clarification on masks" blog.
MOD_Raven a mask should be allowed. There's a difference between a mask and just a face.
Gagaluv I know! That's why I made this blog. https://kovaze.com/blog/66370
I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings, but this rule was set ages ago. Itโs only blowing up on the site now, despite the fact that many people already took advantage of selling full avatars and merged items (something I disagree with). Bundling facial features is frustrating purely because it restricts customization. Otherwise, it's not that deepโif a user chooses to limit themselves to a pre-set face, that's on them. As for clothing and shoes, I donโt mind it, though I regret merging some of my own designs since it kills variety. They should be separate items given that there is a specific category for shoes. Regarding the accessories: The problem is the 3-item limit. Forcing people to pay real money for more slots is just messed up.
Seong Just as if a user chooses to limit themselves to buy an dress that has shoes, a handbag, and bracelets all combined. This is my point about consistency.
Seong Re: "The problem is the 3-item limit. Forcing people to pay real money for more slots is just messed up." - The previous site had a 1 item limit. - Account upgrades can be purchased via Koinz, which I had implemented because users requested there be more things they can spend Koinz on. People are not forced to pay real money for more slots - that is false.
Sin ohh sorry i didnt remember we could pay with koinz, sorry!!
you spilled. This honestly seemed targeted at you. Kiss was doing makeup a few weeks ago and there wasn't an issue then, you make a couple and suddenly it's a huge issue. It's not a full avatar, people will still have to buy hair, clothes, accessories, etc. And you're right, why is this different than an outfit that comes with shoes? Half my outfits have shoes included, but I still buy cute boots when I see them.
Cherry Are you stupid? Did my designs have eyes? Lips? You are clearly stupid.
Kiss Just like i mentioned on your blog your kiss logo could be considered an added accessory or background. So i guess yes, yours break the rules too :)
Kiss please don't be rude. All I did was say you posted makeup.
your makeup designs are sooo good team u
Mods are a high school klique wbk
Metropolis me google wbk bcus apparently im a boomer now :(
spill girl #TeamCookie
Someone competing with you in Shops is clearly threatened by your artistry. Thereโs some bias going onโฆ
MaxOra My favorite part is when they use their 17 mod accounts to neg my blog like -50 lmao
im not reading all that but i plussed